Julie Washington on her love of language and the future of teaching

On April 3, 2025, Julie Washington was appointed interim dean of the School of Education at the University of California, Irvine. No stranger to leadership roles, the professor of education was already associate dean for faculty development and diversity at the school, where she’s been a member of the faculty since 2021. Before that, Washington served as professor and chair of the Department of Communication Sciences and Disorders at Georgia State University and professor and chair of the Department of Communicative Disorders at the University of Wisconsin-Madison.

Washington describes herself as a “language nerd” who, during her high school years, frequently won oratory contests and reveled in the art of diagramming sentences. After working with a speech-language pathologist for voice therapy during that same period of her life, Washington knew she had found the career she wanted to pursue.

Most recently, her research has centered around how language impacts reading and writing and how it develops in children who learn variations of American English in their communities. Washington shares her expertise worldwide – this summer, she served as the keynote speaker at the Africa Dyslexia Conference, held in Accra, Ghana, an event co-sponsored by UC Irvine’s School of Education.

In this episode of The UC Irvine Podcast, we’ll learn more about her origin story and the work she’s leading with UC Irvine’s Language Variation and Academic Success lab and Learning Disabilities Research Innovation Hub, which is funded by the National Institute of Health’s National Institute of Child Health and Human Development. Washington will also share where she’s seeing the positive impacts of AI in education, why research drives practice in the field, and how she plans to lead her school and maintain its nationally recognized reputation during this time of funding uncertainty.

“Words” the music for this episode, was provided by Audionautix via the audio library in YouTube Studio. Audionautix is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license.

To get the latest episodes of The UC Irvine Podcast delivered automatically, subscribe at Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

TRANSCRIPT

Cara Capuano/The UC Irvine Podcast:

From the University of California Irvine, I’m Cara Capuano. Thank you for listening to The UC Irvine Podcast.

Our guest today is Julie Washington, Interim Dean of UC Irvine’s School of Education. This conversation has excellent timing as the new school year begins around the country, and the future of education is always on the minds of many. Thank you for joining us today, Dean Washington.

Julie Washington:

Thank you so much for having me.

Capuano:

Let’s start by getting to know you a little bit better. Your research is all about language. Some of the areas that you’ve studied include the intersection of language, literacy and poverty in African American children, the impact of cultural dialects on early literacy skills, and language development and disorders. You’re also a fellow of the American Speech Language Hearing Association and a speech language pathologist. How would you describe yourself and what you do?

Washington:

Well, I am a “language nerd,” I would say. I love all things language in oral form and written form. And so, as you said, I’m a speech language pathologist by clinical training. So, I started out focused on language disorders and how they impact children who are minoritized and specifically African American children. I’ve moved away from that focus on disorder, and I’m very interested in normal processes. So, how language impacts reading, writing, and how language develops in children whose language varies. And so, we call them dialects, but it’s variations of American English that I’m really interested in.

Capuano:

So, what specifically around that are you investigating right now?

Washington:

Well, you know, this has been a long career. In the beginning, we knew a lot about adults and so how dialect looked, how it was used. And my career has really focused on helping us understand children. And so, we talked about the developmental nature of dialect, so we understand that better now. And I feel like I’ve come full circle.

One of the things that I started out interested in was assessment and how our assessments were resulting in misdiagnosis of African American kids in schools. So, you know, fast forward to 2025 and my focus is really on developing assessments. So, in the beginning it was more, how are these assessments impacting outcomes and what could be different? And now we’re working on creating the differences, so that when African American kids’ language is assessed, we understand their language competence and not just how they perform on assessments that really weren’t designed with them in mind.

Capuano:

Now that you’re designing the specific assessments to suit the needs of the children, what kind of outcomes are you seeing? Or is it still too early stages for that?

Washington:

No, I think we had some idea about what the outcomes might be, which is why we needed to develop the assessments. And what we’re seeing is that when we – especially with language assessments – that if we administer our traditional language assessments to African American children, they really don’t perform very well. They look like they’re at the mean or below. But when we take our models and we integrate their language variation into the outcomes and the models of the outcomes, we see them scoring at the mean and above.

And so, we understand that by ignoring the language expertise that kids bring to the process from their own speech communities, that we’re really not getting a good picture of what they actually know about language. What we were learning was what they don’t know about language, which is why they perform so poorly. And now that we’re considering their own language production and comprehension in the instruments that we’re developing, we’re really getting to see what they actually know about language and how well they perform in different areas of assessment.

Capuano:

It’s such an excellent reminder of the importance of meeting the students where they’re at.

Washington:

Yes. That’s right.

Capuano:

That’s amazing. You’re also the director of the California Learning Disabilities Research Innovation Hub at UC Irvine and the Language Variation and Academic Success Lab. What activities do those roles in entail?

Washington:

Even though they have two different names, they’re really quite related. So, the Learning Disabilities Research Innovation Hub was funded by the National Institutes of Health, National Institute on Child Health and Human Development, so NICHD. The question that we asked – because in addition to focusing on language, we’re really focused on the role of language in the development of literacy – there’s a real focus now on dyslexia and reading disabilities and all these different areas. And one of the things that we asked with the hub was: “In a population of kids, where eight out of 10 are having difficulty with reading, who has a reading disability?”

So, how do you tell the difference when 80% of the population is struggling, who actually has a disability? So that was the question that the hub asked. And so, we have been publishing off that data for a while, learning more and more about the reading developmental profile of African American kids growing up in poverty. What we have not been able to do is answer that question.

So, we answered a lot of questions, but the question about who actually has a reading disability has been harder to address because of our assessments. And so that’s what got us back on the assessment train – that the assessments that we currently have at our disposal: 1. can’t tell the difference between poverty and disability, and 2. do not consider the language variation that African American kids bring to language and literacy assessment.

And so, like most things research-based, the answers we were looking for led to more questions instead of answers. So, that’s where we are with that. The Language Variation and Academic Success Lab includes me, my students and my colleagues trying to address these questions here at UCI.

Capuano:

How far are we from getting the answer?

Washington:

Hopefully we’ll get it in my lifetime. (laughs) I don’t think we’re that far away. I think it’s really hard for researchers like me who are always seeking answers to finally decide we might know the answer, and we might actually have enough information to address the issue.

I wrote an article in 2021 with a colleague of mine from the University of Wisconsin, Mark Seidenberg, and we were writing for teachers. It was the National Education Association, and they wanted us to talk about dialect and classroom performance. And I said, “Oh, we need to know so much more about these things, these things, these things.” And Mark said to me, “You know enough.” And we wrote the article.

So, the question about how far away we are, it depends on whether you ask me, the practitioner, or me, the researcher. The researcher thinks we are many years away from answering some of these questions. But as a practitioner, I think we can be doing better – that we have enough information to do better.

Capuano:

I love the, “You know enough.” (laughs)

Washington:

Yes! (laughs)

Capuano:

I think that that’s great. I think more researchers might need to be reminded of that…

Washington:

Yes, yes!

Capuano:

…from time to time.

Washington:

Yeah, it was, jarring when he said it and I thought, “Yeah, maybe I do know enough to actually address this issue.” And this has been one of the most cited papers that we wrote because we wrote specifically to practitioners and teachers really needed and wanted the information. So, we get a lot of great feedback from it. So, he was right. We knew enough.

Capuano:

That’s a fantastic story. What made you the “language nerd” that you are? What drew you to the study of language?

Washington:

That’s so funny because I have always been a public speaker – an extemporaneous speaker. So, I’m really good at just talking off the cuff. And so, when I was in high school, actually, I started entering these oratory contests and winning them. And so, I really got into oral language. Then in English class in high school when we started diagramming sentences, I think I was one of the few people who thought this was wonderful. It was so much fun!

And so, I thought from there, what can I do with these things that I’m really interested in? And I had the experience, as a high school senior actually … I also sing. And so, I damaged my vocal cords because I wasn’t singing the way I should be. And I met a speech pathologist because I needed voice therapy. And so, when she started talking to me about the discipline – because voice therapy really just involves talking and using your voice in a way that is more healthy – she started talking about the discipline and I thought, “Boy, that sounds really cool. That sounds like something I could do with my love for all things language.” The rest is history. I pursued it in undergrad and then graduate school and then my Ph.D. and so I was able to take something that was really exciting for me and that I really enjoyed doing and turn it into something that became a career.

Capuano:

I love that origin story. And I have to ask, are you still singing?

Washington:

Yes. Not as much as I would like or I should be, probably. But you know, my mother was a singer and so I sang a lot in my youth, and then you rebel against your mother, and you stop singing, which is what I did. And so, I don’t sing a lot, but I still can sing.

Capuano:

Is there a specific music that you’re drawn to?

Washington:

Gospel music actually is what we always sang growing up, and that continues to be what I’m interested in. It’s not the music I usually listen to, but if I sing, that’s what I sing.

Capuano:

That’s wonderful. And we’ve talked about the singing, but let’s bring it back to your talking talent. It’s my understanding you just returned from the Africa Dyslexia Conference, where you were actually the keynote speaker. What can you share with us about that experience?

Washington:

It was really exciting. It was in Accra, Ghana, and I met this woman actually in February who was at another conference here in the United States, and she was talking to me about what she was trying to do. And she is a Ghanaian native who has dyslexia herself, and she was really trying to engage policymakers, practitioners and parents in improving understanding of dyslexia and how it impacts lives. And she asked me if I would come and I thought, “I don’t know.” Then, you know, the more I talked to her, I realized she’s really on the ground floor foundationally of trying to impact her country, and they’re thinking about how to teach, how to classify, diagnose and respect people who have dyslexia.

It’s a culture where disability is not as supported, and so this is really important for them. And so, I was honored to be asked to open the conference and talk to them about language because this is a country where they speak more than a hundred different languages – and for every language there are three or four dialects – and so, there’s so much linguistic diversity in this country. So, it was very exciting to be able to do it and to be able to support these teachers and this young woman and the country while they are trying to do some of the things that we have been doing for a long time. And I feel really strongly in a country like Ghana, where there is so much linguistic diversity that maybe we can help them avoid some of the mistakes we made in this country.

I was excited to be involved. It was wonderful.

Capuano:

Sounds like it was a remarkable experience.

Washington:

It really was.

Capuano:

Do you have a standout memory?

Washington:

I don’t know if I have a standout memory as much as a lot of memories of the people. The food is amazing. The country – the enthusiasm around doing this better and doing it right.

They really included the voices of parents, which I really appreciated, who got an opportunity to talk about their journey. They’re the ones who impacted me probably the most, advocating for their children in an environment where dyslexia isn’t even a term that anybody really has heard or understands.

When I was invited to this conference and we talked about the work that they were trying to do, I was very pleased that the School of Education at UCI was willing to co-sponsor. And so, we were really able to have a presence at this conference. And I’m looking forward to continuing to work with Ghana and the Africa Dyslexia Organization to improve the outcomes for students and the diagnosis. We’re still working on some of those issues ourselves, but we are light years ahead of where they are, so hopefully we can transmit some of our knowledge and support them in their own cultural environment.

Capuano:

That sounds very energizing…

Washington:

It was awesome.

Capuano:

… and potentially like the start of a beautiful partnership…

Washington:

Yes.

Capuano:

… for the UC Irvine School of Education.

Washington:

Absolutely.

Capuano:

Let’s zoom out now to the bigger picture of education. It seems to be constantly evolving, especially the last few years. What topics do you see dominating conversations about education?

Washington:

Well, in my own world, it is teacher education and reading. We have found ourselves at a crossroads in education where we realize we’re not doing very well teaching many children to read. And if they are children who come from culturally or linguistically diverse backgrounds, we’re doing even more poorly.

Our research is grounded in the science of reading, which is 50 years of research outcomes that have shown us what the foundation is of reading, what kids really need to know. And now we’re trying to get that information into the hands of teachers – teacher training programs and also teachers who are already in the field. We’re doing a lot of education of teachers in professional development to try to bring people up to speed. And like many things that happen in education, it’s been inspiring because the focus on reading really was pushed by parents in the dyslexia community.

In 50 states, there are 40 of them that now have dyslexia laws. That really started as a groundswell with parents, moved up to policymakers in states and have now become the focus in education. That’s been really exciting.

The other area that of course is very exciting is AI, and how to include and embed technology into our teaching. The pandemic sort of raised this for us as higher ed where we all are Zoom – it’s like so much a part of our lives now – and before the pandemic it wasn’t. And so now we’re thinking about it and how technology impacts education, how we can use it better, and what AI means for education.

And unfortunately, we hear a lot of the negative things about technology and AI and how it’s, you know, somehow it’s destroying a whole generation of learners – I’m pretty sure that’s the same thing we said about rock ‘n’ roll. (laughs)

We always have these points in our history where we have all this concern about what this really new thing means for how we do our business. But these are some of the areas that we see that are really important right now in education where we’re hearing a lot of talk about technology, about AI, about improving reading and writing outcomes, about how these things allow us to remain competitive as a nation in terms of education. So, it’s an exciting time and it’s a time of great transition and change.

Capuano:

How does research impact all of that talk about those different topics?

Washington:

I think research is critical. Research is slow, so we’re not always where people want us to be. Like I said, with reading, it’s a culmination of 50 years of research that have brought us to this point in the science of reading. Pulling all that information together, we see a pattern of things that we need to do – that research is ongoing – but research really drives, especially education research, really drives practice. It doesn’t drive it fast.

And in the case of technology, technology changes so fast, we really need to get things into the hands of our constituents fairly quickly. But it’s research that’s driving a lot of what we know and what we’re deciding to do. We’re seeing, universities, publishers, schools and others really coming together on these issues and trying to make sure that our practice is evidence-based and the evidence comes from research.

Capuano:

We’ve talked about the research. Now let’s talk about the technology aspect. As you mentioned, it moves faster, often faster than the research, but it is becoming more important in educational instruction, in assessment. How do you see technology impacting the work that you do?

Washington:

It is really impacting the work that we’re doing in literacy and language, and especially with African American kids. And one of the things that we are really focused on – when I say we, I mean in higher education, in tech companies, and in publishing companies – is the use of AI in assessment and in classroom teaching and trying not to make some of the same mistakes with AI that we made with paper and pencil assessments.

So, as we’re developing these big language models that drive AI, we really need to make sure that we are including the voices of everyone that sits in front of us in classrooms. So, what we’re finding in my own work is that we have companies that are starting to use AI models in classrooms to support reading and writing – for example, speech-to-text – and we find that the language models that are used to develop these instruments do not include kids who speak language varieties, or who have accents, or who come from different linguistic backgrounds, and, as a result, they’re not very accurate.

They’re high stakes though. And the more that we’re using this technology and assessment, the more important it becomes that we get this right because kids’ lives depend on us getting these things right. And so that’s one area of AI that’s huge for us.

Then at the university, it’s, “Should students be using AI when they’re doing their research and things like that?” And, you know, AI can’t think for you – not yet. And so, students still need to be able to think, and we have to consider the pros and cons of using technology in the work that we do.

For example, the things that I focus on in dyslexia, I can see technology being a real advantage for students who are dyslexic. I can see AI – these models like ChatGPT – really supporting these students because it takes away the need for them to use all of their cognitive energy focused on the structure and it helps them with the structure and putting their ideas down.

I think it’s incumbent upon us, as the scientists and as the teachers, to figure out how to raise a generation of students who are using AI to use it in an ethical and supportive way. I think that’s our job. But I see it benefiting so many students. The students with dyslexia who are using AI are finding that it really takes a lot of the pain out of reading and writing for them. And I think that’s good for them.

I see the same thing with our students who speak English as a second language that it can be very, very supportive. The challenge is to do it in a way where it’s not taking the place of knowledge building on the part of the student, and that it’s being used in a way that is ethical and appropriate.

So, there’s so much potential and I don’t think we know what it all is. In the School of Education here, we have a real AI focus and are really considered leaders in that area. So, I can talk about it as it relates to me, but the real experts are my colleagues in the School of Education, who are really out there every day trying to figure out how best to apply this new technology. But it is the wave of the future.

Capuano:

I hear your energy and optimism around it though…

Washington:

Yes.

Capuano:

… and I really appreciate that.

Washington:

I wish more people were optimistic about it. We think the same way about everything that’s new: “Oh my god, it’s going to be the end of the world!” I mentioned rock ‘n’ roll. I wonder how many of us remember Y2K, where we were waiting for the world to stop on January 1st, 2000? And here we are in 2025. So, new things can be scary, but they can also be really, really exciting and really advance our work.

Capuano:

Excellent point. Speaking of new things, let’s bring it back to UC Irvine. You’re new!

Washington:

Yeah.

Capuano:

Typically, deans come into their positions with some visions of what they would like to see happen under their leadership. What does that look like for you with UC Irvine’s School of Education?

Washington:

It’s interesting coming into this job in 2025 because higher education is under attack, as we all know. And so, I think the challenge for me as a new dean in this time is to continue to do the good work that we’ve been doing, even in the face of what feels like personal attacks to us. And to continue to be a highly rated school that is in the forefront of research.

Research dollars are shrinking beyond anything anybody can imagine. I just looked at those numbers yesterday and it is sobering. And so, I think my real vision at this point is not to allow that to become how we define ourselves, to continue to advance our own values and our own research – and to see the value of those things even in the face of this – and to become a better and stronger School of Education.

That will involve learning how to integrate some of the technology that we’re talking about into our own practice. It will involve keeping people honestly excited and optimistic about the work that we do and being able to do it under the current circumstances.

The people who are around me know that I am fond of saying before there was funding, there was science, and science will continue even in the face of the threat to funding. It will. And so, my job – and the job of my colleagues, I think – is to make sure that that happens, to look at some options and alternatives that we may never have had to consider in the past and make those work for us so that we can continue to do our good work.

We’re a great School of Education. It’s a really excellent school. It’s a young school that is highly rated already and we want to continue that. And the way to do that is to do good work. I don’t think I can have a higher vision than that.

Capuano:

I really appreciate your candor around the hard truths.

Washington:

Yeah, I think we have to be realistic about how things are going, but hey, you know, when I started, nobody was funding what we were doing. Now a lot of people are funding it – or at least they were last year. And so, here we are again.

There’s so much – if you stay in this business long enough, there’s a lot of full circle. And so, I hear people say, “Oh, we’ve been here before, blah, blah, blah.” No, I don’t think we’ve ever actually been in this space before. And we will be fundamentally changed by it. But the change does not have to be all negative. I am realistic about the challenge, but I’m encouraging us to also look for the opportunities because that’s what I’m going to do.

Capuano:

I love it. Is there anything we haven’t discussed today that you wanted to share in this conversation?

Washington:

I just think that, at this time in our history as a university, that we really need to be kind to each other and think about how we can do all of this together. I am really excited about being at UCI. I’m excited about the School of Education and about being in this position at this time, in this space, and hoping that I can make a positive difference in the way that we are doing our business.

Capuano:

Beautifully stated. Thank you so much for joining us today on The UC Irvine Podcast, Dean Washington.

Washington:

Thank you. Thank you so much for inviting me. It challenges you to think about what you really believe in and what your values are.

Capuano:

It’s an important time to ask those questions.

Washington:

Yep, it is.

Capuano:

I’m Cara Capuano. Thank you for listening to our conversation. For the latest UC Irvine News, please visit news.uci.edu. The UC Irvine Podcast is a production of Strategic Communications and Public Affairs at the University of California, Irvine. Please subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.