Focus on first-gen

The University of California defines a first-generation college student as “a student where neither parent nor guardian have earned a four-year college degree.” At UC Irvine, Institutional Research, Assessment, and Planning updated its student head count data during the week of Oct. 27 to include fall of 2025, and according to the enrollment dashboard, 11,104 out of 30,260 (36.7 percent) undergraduates have first-generation status. The latest four-year graduation rate for first-gen students at UC Irvine is 72.8 percent, and the six-year graduation rate is 83.8 percent.

We’re shining the spotlight on first-gen students in this episode of The UC Irvine Podcast. Our guest is Scott Lerner, a lecturer in the School of Humanities’ composition program. Once a first-gen student himself, he commits extensive time and energy to that population on campus, teaching classes with their experiences as the primary theme and helping lead initiatives to increase first-gen visibility. These efforts include a freshman seminar exploring the hidden curriculum and a website of resources and contacts. Lerner shares stories of tribulation and triumph from his first-gen journey, explains how he structures courses to help students tell their own tales, and muses about changes that could further enhance everyone’s capabilities to succeed.

“Brave,” the music for this episode, was provided by Mark Karan, Scott Guberman, Angeline Saris and Jeremy Hoenig, via the audio library in YouTube Studio.

To get the latest episodes of The UC Irvine Podcast delivered automatically, subscribe at Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

TRANSCRIPT

Cara Capuano/The UC Irvine Podcast:

From the University of California Irvine, I’m Cara Capuano. Thank you for listening to The UC Irvine Podcast. Our guest today is Scott Lerner, a lecturer for the composition program offered by the English Department through UC Irvine’s School of Humanities. From 2021-23, Professor Lerner also served as coordinator for first-generation initiatives in the School of Humanities. The national First-Generation College Celebration is always held on November 8th. It commemorates the anniversary of the signing of the Higher Education Act of 1965, which helped create federal financial aid programs for students. In the fall of 2024, nearly 12,000 of the undergraduates on UC Irvine’s Campus were first-generation students – that’s over 39 percent – and they’re the topic of today’s episode. Professor Lerner, thank you for joining us.

Lerner:

Thank you so much for having me.

Capuano:

You’re a first-generation student yourself. So, let’s begin with the phrase. What does it mean to be first-generation?

Lerner:

A first-generation student is someone whose parents or guardians did not receive a four-year degree. That’s certainly one way to define this large group of students that you’ve identified. I think we may also consider that these students are going through a really unique experience. They’re entering a new space and they’re crossing some sort of threshold. And when they do that, it comes with all sorts of emotional experiences, feelings, challenges, dynamics. And so, to be a first-generation student is, I think, more than just being the first in your family or the first-generation in your family to try to pursue a degree. It’s all that comes along with what that experience entails.

Capuano:

And managing that at an early age. We have late stage teenagers. We have people in their early twenties. That’s a lot! I’d like to learn about your journey. What did being a first-gen student look like for you?

Lerner:

Thank you. Yeah, I think I’m still processing it, honestly. I’m 38 and I’m still learning about what it meant, what it was like, how it shaped me, how the experiences define what I do today.

My experience and my journey is really not linear. It’s wild, honestly. If I can give you a brief overview.

Capuano:

Yes.

Lerner:

It’s like I’m the student in high school who’s enrolled in AP classes at a really good public school. And then suddenly I see classmates with AP study guides. And I hadn’t realized that you take an AP test after the end of the year to get credit for the class. I thought it was just the advanced class. So suddenly I’m scrambling to figure out what this test is. How do you take it? It’s not just any old test. There’s actually a strategy to it. And somehow, I missed that.

I’m the student who didn’t know that for SATs, you could take tutoring courses and that it’s not just a test that scores your aptitude and your intelligence – it’s also your ability to take the test and learn how to navigate it. So, that’s kind of the beginning of my journey.

When I get to college, I’m making all kinds of mistakes. So many, one after the other, always feeling a step behind. I’m succeeding in some ways – really determined, really striving – but also, not doing so well in other ways and just trying to play catch up. And that’s kind of the journey in a nutshell.

I can of course go into so much more detail about specific moments, and I’ve thought of a few that are really informative. But it’s a journey that includes transferring through multiple times. It includes trying to graduate on time, rushing through classes, changing majors, not knowing not only what I wanted to do, but also trying to find the right credits and to find the money and to balance work and commuting. And so, the college experience is all those things for me.

Capuano:

Did you feel like you were doing it on your own?

Lerner:

In some ways, yes. In other ways, no. A strength for me is the support of my family and the background. My family brings to the table a lot of grit, a lot of determination, a lot of support, a lot of love. So, I have that in spades. How to navigate the university, how to study, how to pick a major, how to succeed in those aspects of college life – that, I was really doing with my friends and trying to figure it out as we went along. But it’s something that I didn’t have the support at home for.

Capuano:

And doing it at a school like UCLA, which is where you received your undergraduate degree, that’s a huge place to try to navigate all of those different spheres of importance.

Lerner:

Definitely.

Capuano:

How did your experience drive you toward working with the first-generation students here at UC Irvine?

Lerner:

I would say my experiences, which are still ongoing by the way – I still consider myself a first-gen or someone crossing a threshold, and I still feel that I have first-gen or threshold-crossing or trailblazing experiences every day here at UCI. So, the experiences are ongoing. I would say they shape everything – from my interest in exploring these topics on campus, from programming to volunteer work, to in the classroom, to the policies I have for my class, to how I communicate with students. Everything is shaped by what that experience was and what the experiences still are.

Capuano:

You’re a lecturer in the School of Humanities Composition Program. This quarter, you’re teaching “Writing 45” with the specific composition theme being “First-gen: First and Onlys, Success and Well-being.” How are those courses structured?

Lerner:

Thanks for asking. I love this course. I developed it. The course is based on a book called First Gen by Alejandra Campoverdi. She came to UCI in 2023 to promote the book and gave a talk and I really fell in love with it. Everybody listening, I encourage you to check it out. It’s a beautiful memoir. And the author really helped me understand my own first-gen experiences.

She helped me redefine the term more broadly as these “first and onlys,” who may be the first in a room or at the table to encounter some of these experiences or to bring these backgrounds into some of these spaces. She helped me understand that a first-gen student may be someone crossing some sort of threshold, which can include many of our students, whether their parents have degrees or not.

So, the course opens up a really important conversation for me and the students about what these experiences are like – what it means to cross these thresholds. The author identifies many dynamics that first and onlys often encounter. These can include things like – she calls it a “lonely hustle.” It’s where you’re pursuing a goal and a career that’s very distant from where you’re from. And as you achieve more success and you’re achieving your goal and pursuing your goal, you grow more and more distant from where you’ve come from. And that can feel really lonely and really hard to process.

She describes dynamics like a “breakaway guilt,” which is when you are moving distant into your career or into these spaces that are so distinct from where you’re from or from your past life or the work your parents do.

This breakaway guilt can be an experience where, as you find success in your career and you’re breaking away from your home life or your family or your past life, you don’t feel necessarily great about what you’re achieving. You feel guilt for maybe leaving your family behind.

For me, I wanted to be… do something with literature and be a writer eventually. And that requires a lot of solitude, a lot of alone time and time to think and read. And my family was one where we gathered in the living room in our small house. In any room, you could hear everybody and what they were doing. We gathered at the dinner table, we talked there. So, me stepping aside to do what I needed to do for my career – I was never shamed for it – but I felt an internal guilt that I was somehow leaving the group. I was leaving the family.

So, these are the dynamics, some of the dynamics, that we explore in this class. We talk about it, we analyze it, and students eventually write their own creative projects that allow them to start their own conversations about these important topics.

Capuano:

So, to that end, what do you hope that students take away from their time in your course?

Lerner:

I really hope they become stronger communicators. I hope they become students who are open to raising important concerns in our community; addressing them thoughtfully, meaningfully, persuasively, beautifully; and that they’re willing to start those conversations in the class first, with each other – with students who understand the dynamics because we’re reading the same book – but then maybe out in the world.

For me, I hid a lot of these components of my experience. Our author, Campoverdi, will call this kind of “making the invisible parts of our lives visible.” And I think part of the work of this class is taking those invisible experiences that are so easy to tuck away and not acknowledge or pretend like they aren’t impacting us and making them visible, owning them, talking about them, processing them.

This is a radical change from when I was a student. I must say, when I was a student – which is around 2005 to 2009 as an undergraduate – first-gen wasn’t really a thing, and it was certainly not something that any professor ever brought up or talked about or acknowledged, and it’s not something I acknowledged either. So, all of those experiences – and there are so many that we haven’t even touched on that I would love to share – but there’s so many, like really hard moments, and successes and triumphs – both of which are tied to being the first to try to do this in my sphere – and just internalizing all that. And I think that’s had a profound impact on what I want to do with this course, but also, you know, the role I see myself playing here at UCI.

Capuano:

What do you learn from your students?

Lerner:

So much. (laughs)

Capuano:

I’m sure!

Lerner:

I really admire them. I learn about determination, about grit. I learn about their ambitions, about their willingness to be brave. And I always admire that. I learn about their anxieties too, about the world, about their work, about taking risks. And because so many are trailblazers for their family, or crossing a threshold, I see them processing my experiences – and experiences of friends and colleagues – and helping me understand it in new ways.

So, I learned from them that even though they’re young and they’re undergraduates, they are creating knowledge about this important experience. They’re adding to the discourse, they’re shaping it. They are it in many ways and I love that. It’s so distinct from, I think, a dynamic where they learn from us and we have all the information to give them. In this case, they have so much to teach us actually, not just me, but the whole community. So, I learn so much about the world from them.

Capuano:

That’s wonderful. Thinking back to what you were saying about this is not your experience, do you ever envy your students that there is a space for them now and you’re helping to cultivate that space?

Lerner:

I don’t know if I feel envy. I have come to accept that what I perceived before as one of my greatest weaknesses – being first-gen, making all the mistakes I made – has also made me the person I am now in some ways. So, I don’t want to (laughs) make it seem like all the struggles were totally worth it and that they weren’t struggles themselves. But I definitely wouldn’t be here – where I am now and teaching this kind of class and having these interactions and having these positive experiences – if I hadn’t had this circuitous and bizarre journey to get here.

Capuano:

I really honor that perspective. How does UC Irvine’s School of Humanities demonstrate its commitment to the first-gen population on campus?

Lerner:

I think in so many ways. Honestly, there are a lot to point out. I really want to highlight the teachers because I think fundamentally that’s what we’re doing here, and the classroom is the space where I think teachers are making connections with students. They’re aware of the students in their classes and who they are as whole people. And a lot of the teachers I know are designing courses similar to mine, but in their own vein that address issues in higher education, address first-gen narratives, address other issues important to students. And I know many, many lecturers like me who are meeting with students outside of class and spending that extra energy and time learning about students, talking about things related to class, or adjacent to class or life. And so, I know Humanities lecturers and teachers and professors are putting in a lot of their own heart and soul into supporting first-gen students.

There’s of course, institutional efforts. Like there’s a peer mentor program, there’s advisors who are aware of and very sensitive to first-gen needs. I helped build a website that has all kinds of contacts and information for students. So, there’s all kinds of support out there. It’s becoming more comprehensive. Awareness is growing, I think every year. But yeah, that classroom dynamic and the out of classroom dynamic from the teachers, I think is really instrumental.

Capuano:

I’m sure it is – and we’ll definitely link to that website in the intro webpage for our podcast. I want to share some statistics now from the organization FirstGen Forward, whose mission is “to foster success for first-generation students through collaborations with higher education, philanthropy, business, government and individuals to eliminate the completion gap and broaden post-college opportunities.”

There are 489 institutions in the FirstGen Forward network, which spans 49 states and the District of Columbia. That includes UC Irvine and seven other UC schools. According to FirstGen Forward, there are 8.2 million first-generation undergraduate students in the United States. That’s 54% of all undergrads in the U.S. But first-gen students graduate at a rate of 24% versus 59% for continuing generation students. From what you’ve learned, why are we seeing that disparity in completion?

Lerner:

It’s a shocking number. Thank you for sharing it. I don’t want to pretend like I know the answer, or even that there is an answer that can explain it. I’ve been pondering why this is, and I think there may be many reasons. The challenges that first-gen students face are so multifaceted that efforts to address them also need to be similarly multifaceted. If I can give you a couple examples from my own life, it might answer the question a little bit more indirectly but may be kind of interesting.

When I was an undergraduate, I was trying to transfer, and I needed to take a year’s worth of a foreign language that was not romantic or Germanic. And I picked a language at the community college I was studying at, but in the schedule of classes, it was only available in the fall – the first class, they didn’t offer the second class – so I assumed they just may not offer the second class.

So, to fulfill this requirement, I enrolled in another community college in Glendale, which was maybe 15 miles away from where I was studying in Valley Glen. They had the language course one and two offered in the fall. So, I was sure I’d be able to get both requirements fulfilled at that college. And I was working in the city at the time, so I was making this huge triangle, spending so much time in the car. And, come spring semester, the community college that I was initially enrolled in – guess what? They offered the second course in the series. I didn’t understand sequencing at the time (laughs), that just because the class isn’t offered at one point in the year doesn’t mean it won’t be offered the next part of the year or next semester, whatever.

This is the kind of lack of understanding or lack of knowledge – and then the decisions that follow that are so misguided – that took so much time and effort and money and stress.

And every time I apply – and applied to graduate schools, for example, or jobs –I have got to get the transcripts from that extra community college. Like, it just creates so many burdens. And if I can continue this story… like I could see now the easy ways that I could have resolved that problem by just like asking somebody. But you know, I didn’t.

When I finally did transfer, I was struggling to carry over credits from community college into UCLA. I was going to have to probably retake about a year’s worth of classes. I was devastated. So, I switched majors, to try to move quicker, and I was in a class and learned I really wanted to do creative writing. And to do creative writing, you had to take three courses to get the like concentration.

So, I got lucky. I had four quarters left at UCLA and there were three creative writing classes to take. You had to take them in different quarters. That first quarter that I needed to get the creative writing class, I applied and I got in. So, I took that class, I had two left and three quarters remaining.

I applied for the next creative writing course, and I didn’t get in. So, I emailed the professor. Unbeknownst to me, this professor was a very prominent writer, and I think was in charge of the creative writing concentration. And I tried to lay out my background and say, “Look, I’m a transfer student. I’ve only got three quarters left. I need two classes. I really need to get in this class and I’m getting anxious about not fulfilling the requirement and it’s something that I really want to succeed in.”

And their response was, “You know, rejection is part of a writer’s life. If you can’t handle this rejection, maybe this isn’t the right career for you.”

And I just remember being so demoralized, so dismissed, and I’m telling you this story not because it’s a personal grievance, although I do remember it vividly going back almost 20 years now (laughs). You know, I felt unseen. Here’s someone who’s totally determined. I’ve been struggling to transfer. I’ve been driving around the city. I’m trying to find these courses. I made it here. I’m switching majors. I’m trying to play catch up. Like I’m not someone who’s going to be overwhelmed by one rejection or give up so easily. You know, that’s not describing me at all.

So, I tell you this because that moment felt like this program isn’t set up for me or someone like me – someone who’s transferring in, who’s on a time crunch, who wants to graduate in four years, who doesn’t have the money or something like that – cannot really access this, potentially.

So, how do we get first-gen students to graduate more, to stay in the university more? I think it’s thinking along these lines. It’s thinking of a student like me, who’s maybe struggling with something else in their lives. I could really imagine myself giving up in that moment or just feeling like this isn’t for me. The thought even crossed my mind like, “Am I paying to be treated like this?” You know and having a sense of pride about not wanting to be humiliated again. I have more experiences like this sadly.

I think being sensitive to that and continuing the hard work of trying to find a way to not just bring the students here and kind of assimilate them, but help change the university to support them, to allow the students to change the university, also – to have it reflect them – for them to be the university.

I hope that my story kind of illustrates the way that accessing something that is kind of concrete the way it is wasn’t really working out and could be a huge deterrent.

Capuano:

How did you recover from that as you were telling the story? I felt myself crestfallen over the developments!

Lerner:

I think I have a good answer to that. So, I did graduate, but I must say that the school felt kind of tarnished and I was disenchanted at that moment and after. And I did have like a, “I just wanna get outta here” type of feeling.

So, I did conflate one experience with the school, and I now know that that’s a very young, or… let’s say “young mindset” to have. But a few years went by and I was able to really think about what I wanted to do. I still wanted to be a writer. I wasn’t going to let that (laughs) knock me down.

So, I went back to UCLA for the first time in like four years and I went to a professor I loved. I found him in his office. I knocked on the door. He opened the door very upset with me: “You’ve got to make an appointment. You don’t just knock on someone’s door. This is disruptive. I’m leaving.”

And I said, “I understand. I’m really sorry. I should have emailed you.”

Again, feeling this like, “Wow! I just can’t do it right, I guess!”

Here am I thinking, just paid $12 to park on campus (laughs). I drove here, I took this day off work or whatever to like be here and make this in-person proclamation. Of course it’s wrong.

And I said, “But I’ve been writing this novel. I’m really excited about it. I loved your class! Any way you’d be able to write a letter of rec?”

And he said, “Everyone’s writing a novel. Have you been published? Have you been working in the literary scene?”

The answer to all of these things was no. So, he’s like, “You’re not going to get into a program – MFA school. You should (laughs) pursue something else.” I’m laughing because of where the story goes.

Capuano:

And meantime, I’m sitting here I’m devastated for you!

Lerner:

So, I walked down the hall. I had two professors I wanted to see – my two favorite professors. I walked down the hall. The other professor’s… amazing guy, Professor Colacurcio. He’s sitting there with the door open and I’m like, “Hi, I don’t know if you remember me – it’s been a few years.”

He’s like, “Ahh, come on in!” Hilarious guy.

And I tell him like, “I really want to pursue creative writing, and I really loved your class.”

“Oh, that’s great!” he said. He was so positive, so encouraging. And he talked to me for, I don’t know, an hour?

“Grad school is really competitive. You might want to take this approach, apply abroad.” He gave me like a lesson in what to do and how to pursue this: “Don’t be upset if you don’t get in. Reach out to me if you need anything.”

And I really later realized: for every negative experience I’ve had, there have also been those people willing to devote their time to be kind, to coach and guide. And he was right: I didn’t get in that first year, but I applied again. I got in here to UCI and now we’re talking.

So, how did I recover? It’s still a challenge sometimes to think of those moments. But I also can understand the situation that everybody’s in. We’re all processing our own lives, working through our own struggles. And there are other people out there, who want to hear you and hear what you have to say and support you. And that has helped me countless times. And you know, I strive to be that person. Every time I’m tired or want to do something else or take a break, I remember that moment where somebody took me in and was willing to devote their time to me.

Capuano:

I’m very thankful for that second professor further down the hall. And I think I’m recognizing you have definitely become one of those individuals that’s “that helpful one down the hall.” How can we further support first-gen students to bring that number up and change that completion gap and provide them what they need to succeed?

Lerner:

I want to maybe dream a little bit with you.

Capuano:

Yes!

Lerner:

On a practical level, I think, to all the students listening, let’s just say if you’re having a hard time, if the school seems intimidating or impenetrable, there are the people out there who want to talk to you and who will talk to you. And you might have to search for them. They might not appear so obviously in your purview, but they are there. There are many of us on campus. Reach out. If you can be brave and continue being brave like you were to even get here, go for it. You might get shot down like I did, but there’s someone around the corner who’s going to be there for you and talk to you. So, for the students, I want to encourage you to take that active role if you can.

And for everyone else listening, I think we just have to remember that human connection, that support, the choices we make in our classes and all these interactions, they really do add up. They can change any individual’s view of the space.

It’s our most prized possession – our time that we devote and the energy we have and the connections we make. So, in terms of dreaming a little bit (laughs), as a school – this is a little bit of a fantasy – but I would really like to have more time to talk to students. My dream is smaller classes. I want mentorship built into the job. I want the opportunity to not have to take time out of my own family life to support students in the ways we’ve been talking about. I want it built into my time.

That’s a serious dream of mine (laughs). And I think I’ve talked to a lot of faculty who would really appreciate those letters of recommendation, that early mentorship, those chats we have with young people… we would all love more time to use our psychological and cultural capital in those ways. I would dream that for sure.

I want more access to the university. Yeah, I was a commuter, and I always have two, three or four commuters in every one of my classes. And for those students, the school is accessible primarily here. And here being Irvine is a beautiful, wonderful place and also a very expensive place and a place that’s hard to get to. I brave the freeways – five – to get here. Every day, I see crashes. Every day, I’m further traumatized (laughs) on the roads, not to mention whatever it’s doing to my stress.

And the time, just the time spent on the roads. You know, during the remote years of the pandemic, I was the best mentor I could be because I had the most time to meet with students. I could meet with them at odd hours, non-traditional hours because I could manage the time I wasn’t on the roads. So, having access in that way is one way to also encourage and help support first-gen students who may be working, who may be driving here, who may have other things going on in their lives, responsibilities at home, caretaking duties.

And I always meet students who are caring for the elderly, caring for their siblings, working – part- or full-time – driving from places like Riverside, Glendale or one student from Rancho Cucamonga. These are serious trips to Irvine. You know, these are all ways that students I think can be deterred from finishing – or maybe just something gets in the way – but increasing our access to them and their access to us, I think could really, really go a long way.

Capuano:

Is there anything that you wanted to talk about in our conversation that we didn’t get to today?

Lerner:

Maybe so much, but I do want to give a shout out to all the teachers out there in the field, in the class doing the work every day. A lot of that work is unrecognized – it’s not on our resumes or on our CVs.

And for all the students out there who are trying to fill in the gaps in the bullet points of their lives and trying to tell those stories, check out First-gen the book, but also, keep harnessing that vulnerability. Keep making those connections. Same to everyone listening: I really do think it’s a key here to keeping this conversation going, to broadening it.

I maybe should just say I’m but one voice of many. If anything I’ve said here has been inspiring or thought provoking, let’s keep that going and don’t let this be the only resource or source that we consult on the matter.

Capuano:

Thank you for opening up my mind and thank you for dreaming with us. I really appreciate everything that you shared with us. Thank you so much for your time today, Professor Lerner.

Lerner:

Thank you.

Capuano:

And thank you for listening to our conversation. I’m Cara Capuano. For the latest UC Irvine News, please visit news.uci.edu. The UC Irvine Podcast is a production of Strategic Communications and Public Affairs at the University of California, Irvine. Please subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.